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Site and Policy » Possible change to Creator tags. [Opinions needed] » Post 32

MareStare

Mare Zealot
I’m speaking from the experience of using derpibooru/tantabus and having nothing more than grotesque, morbidly obese and some creator tags added to filters. I’ve been using the standard Everything for years until very recently. Mostly looking through the first several pages of the most recent posts, trending, and checking the faves. I believe most people who aren’t involved in tagging, day-to-day metadata updates and power-using the system are just like that. Since many such low-end people do not even read forums or sit on Tantabus Discord, their opinions are left in a void, and it’s important to take that into account. Some common sense guesswork here is unavoidable
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Site and Policy » Possible change to Creator tags. [Opinions needed] » Post 31

LightningBolt

Administrator
ADHD fueled
@MareStare
That’s a big assumption to make that even I’m not making and I find that assuming like that isn’t practical and only serves to make someone’s opinion seem more important than it is.
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Site and Policy » Possible change to Creator tags. [Opinions needed] » Post 30

Site and Policy » Possible change to Creator tags. [Opinions needed] » Post 29

LightningBolt

Administrator
ADHD fueled
@MareStare
Very few people care about the role the creator played in the art piece.
I do, I care, a lot. I also care a lot about indexing roles. I also search for those tags like wings and open mouth a lot.
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Site and Policy » Possible change to Creator tags. [Opinions needed] » Post 28

MareStare

Mare Zealot
Knowing what role a person played in the project is cool just for bookkeeping and historical purposes, but not for indexing purposes. Here’s what I mean by that.
We have a bunch of tags like wings, horn, tail, shirt, desk, open mouth and other minor tags like that which (I think) very rarely get searched for. Meaning people rarely put them into the search box when they come to visit the site and see what new art has been posted, or into the faves and filters. I think very few power users have such specific filters.
Same thing with the creator tags. Very few people care about the role the creator played in the art piece. I think the “creator” tag would have a much greater demand than artist/editor/prompter. I guess it’s fine to keep the “role” tags as metadata facts but at most as best-effort tags. We may not even always know what role people played in the art piece when it gets reposted to tantabus by a 3-rd party who didn’t take part in the creative process. On the contrary I think at least one “creator” tag should be enforced, unless explicit “anonymous creator” or “unknown creator” tag is assigned.
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Site and Policy » Possible change to Creator tags. [Opinions needed] » Post 27

tyto4tme4l

Something of an artist
@Scarlet Ribbon
But does an average user care about distinctions like that? Especially if (in the vast majority of cases) “artist”, “prompter” and “editor” would be the same person? I think this distinction is just unnecessary.
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Site and Policy » Possible change to Creator tags. [Opinions needed] » Post 26

Scarlet Ribbon

True Wildcard
@Nocturn
I don’t know how others are using them, but I would use them as follows:
artist: A person who creates any input work that is pre-existing art into the AI pipeline
prompter: A person who actually writes the prompt/creates the workflow/engages the AI portion of the process
editor: A person who edits the AI output into a finished product
These are absolutely all useful tags that have no business being removed from stuff, however, they’re only useful if they’re being applied correctly.
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Site and Policy » Possible change to Creator tags. [Opinions needed] » Post 24

Minus

After reading about how ‘effort’ tags already exist, I now fully agree with a “creator” tag. With “Editor” remaining for it’s intended purpose, for when someone else was the prompter.
Edit: If someone puts someone elses generated art back into the ai generator, I assume if the original image is still clearly there, like in cases here people put someone’s generated art into an AI purely to animate it, that the right tag to use would be “creator” for both of them? Or would you use an editor tag for the second prompter? Just unsure if editor is the right tag when it’s the AI doing the editing. This is the one thing I can’t yet wrap my head around to be sure on.
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Site and Policy » Possible change to Creator tags. [Opinions needed] » Post 23

greengeode

Unifying prompter and artist into creator or director, and setting apart editor for third-party edits seems like a good idea.
As someone who came to the platorm quite recently, I found the terms to be quite muddled. prompter implies creator makes a prompt and doesn’t necessarily draw, and artist implies large hand-drawn edits. editor is vague, does painting over a ghost signature make one an editor of their own picture? Or does that constitute being an artist? Or is it too small of a change to warrant a second creator tag at all? Am I an artist if I generate through complex workflow and bake in all the changes there, without touching a graphics editor? If I edit someone else’s work with Photoshop, would that make me an artist in addition to editor?
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Site and Policy » Possible change to Creator tags. [Opinions needed] » Post 22

tyto4tme4l

Something of an artist
@Nocturn
Agreed. We already have “ai generated”, “ai composition” and “ai assisted” tags, so one of them combined with the creator’s tag should be sufficient for pretty much all cases. “editor:” could be used just for someone editing someone else’s work.
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Site and Policy » Possible change to Creator tags. [Opinions needed] » Post 21

Nocturn

Senior Moderator
Adjutant
@Scarlet Ribbon
… what you are doing is effectively removing the entire existence of editor/artist tags …
For this site, can you please describe what you consider to be the difference between editor:* and artist:* tags, or how those tags differentiate either the image or the creator for you, or how they are otherwise meaningful and useful for you here?
I am asking because I do not know how they are different in actual use here, or how they provide any meaning to searches, images, or filters.
Let me describe why I don’t see them being different or having any meaning here.
First, the definition of artist here is: “artist:~~name here~~ — specifies the artist if the work has an original non-AI creator or has significant editing (for example, for ai composition images)”, but in actual use here artist:* is used twice as often on images that are neither ai composition nor ai assisted as it is on images that are.
Instead of finding images with significant editing or based on original human artist works, a search for artist:* here is twice as likely to find a pure ai generated image.
So artist:* is not fulfilling the only actual statement of purpose that I can find here.
editor:* has no definition or use here, and in practice seems to be used based on the source of the image - legacy tags or conventions from other sites - or based on the creator’s own subjective assessment of their effort or ability.
And I just noticed the site suggests creator:your-name for the User Link requests, but there’s only 8 ‘creators’ on the site. Which just makes me feel less like any of this is intentional or providing meaningful data for searches, and is only making it more convoluted to find “images by this specific person”.
So in practice all three of those - artist:*, editor:*, creator:* seem to functionally mean the same thing here. And which one is on an image seems to be completely arbitrary and meaningless.
For me, I would rather search for or follow by:rupert than (prompter:rupert OR artist:rupert), or by:truekry as opposed to (artist:truekry OR prompter:truekry).
Because then I could find or watch or hide “Images by Rupert” or “Images by Truekry” if I wanted with a single tag.
I’m not saying that you don’t find meaning or utility in the editor:* or artist:* tags, especially given how strongly you advocate for them.
But can you please give me an example of how you are actually using those different tags today, in practice, that makes them useful?
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Site and Policy » Possible change to Creator tags. [Opinions needed] » Post 20

Background Pony #9429
As long as you don’t switch on using “artist” for non-drawn works I’m fine with whatever. I feel like artist should be reserved for derpibooru.
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Site and Policy » The tag change post limit problem » Post 5

Admin

Administrator
Also, since I wasn’t aware of the exact numbers myself, reposting from our tech admin…
The limit is 50 tag changes per 10 minutes and 1 rating change per ten minutes, for anonymous and unverified users
In case it’d help with how you manage things for now…
Unfortunately right this moment I don’t think we’re still comfortable with the idea of easing up on these limits; we know that spambots on derpi have been getting more “creative” with their avenues of attack (attacking sources recently), and there’re at least to semi-active tag vandals that affect multiple boorus =/
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Site and Policy » The tag change post limit problem » Post 4

Site and Policy » The tag change post limit problem » Post 3

Background Pony #E53E
As a background pony the limit is hitting me pretty hard. Even limiting myself to the weekly uploads of a single prompter I can’t keep up. I hit the limit every day and more images keep coming that need additional tags.
Today I burned through my day’s allotment just adding ‘male pov’ tags to a recent spate of NSFW images by thefuncave and ran out before I could finish tagging a Spitfire image that needs more specificity.
I think doubling the limit for BGP edits could help ease the burden. Even +50% would make a difference for me.
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Site and Policy » Possible change to Creator tags. [Opinions needed] » Post 19

Scarlet Ribbon

True Wildcard
I think staff need to seriously think about what they’re proposing here: Regardless of the name you ultimately decide on, what you are doing is effectively removing the entire existence of editor/artist tags. You are functionally REMOVING distinctions because a limited number of people don’t want to learn to use the site correctly.
As I mentioned before, adding an additional implied unified tag (credit:xxxxx?) solves both issues.
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Site and Policy » Possible change to Creator tags. [Opinions needed] » Post 18

tyto4tme4l

Something of an artist
I think the unification is a good idea. Personally, I lean toward “prompter” as the unified tag, but “creator” would also be fine.
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Site and Policy » Possible change to Creator tags. [Opinions needed] » Post 17

Heat Sink

Administrator
Even with unified tags it is still possible for creators to seperate their art vs edits by just making a second creatpr tag like for example creator:(user) & creator:(user)edits. But with the unified tag we give the creator the choice if they want to have it seperate or combined. Now it feels like it is forced to be seperate.
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Site and Policy » Possible change to Creator tags. [Opinions needed] » Post 16

truekry

Wizzard
@Zerowinger
I guess it makes sense. I guess it’s more of a personal thing as I’m not really comfortable being referred to as a “creator,” when in my opinion I’m not really creating anything. I’m not sketching a start image or editing a traditional art image I made, I’m just entering text into a UI and clicking a button until I get something I like. At best I’ll evolve/duplicate generations and clean them up afterwards, but I still don’t know if that really makes me a creator.
It kind of does, in my opinion. You created the text and you edit. You help in the creative effort and in doing so makes you a creator. We can debate the involvement level needed to define this more but that isn’t the point. That’s was the other ai level tags are for. Creator has a nice ring to it in my opinion.
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Site and Policy » Possible change to Creator tags. [Opinions needed] » Post 15

FOALTAMER

FOALFRONT DEPUTY
logically multiple artists tags are pointless when the composition, generated, assisted tags do the same thing. BUT at the same time you should let people be if they really want to hide there low effort work otherwise well just end up with multiple different names for the same creator. But if we do combine, why not just name it artist to standardize?
Also why do we even have an “ai generated” tag when it’s the majority default? If people want to differentiate then we have AI Comp and Assisted. i always forget and so do a lot of others since it doesn’t make sense for an all AI booru.
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Site and Policy » Possible change to Creator tags. [Opinions needed] » Post 14

Teaspoon

poni
@LightningBolt
You…assume it’s more common for people to want to follow everything a person makes all at once? ._.;
I mean, yeah? I see it much more likely that someone would go “I want to follow everything this person does” than “I want to follow what this person does except this content type”, and in the latter case I’d expect that person to know how filters and watchlists work.
keeping things as they are creates the least amount of issues
I just really don’t see it that way.
On a personal level, a lot of the stuff I work on, I spend a fair bit of time on, sketch out parts, clean up errors, add in details, splice backgrounds and characters into one image, etc. Others I just get a p.cool looking image out of the gate and just do some minor fixes. Currently I tag both as “prompter” because I can’t be arsed with having two tags (especially when the resulting visual differences between both image types isn’t all that noticeable and I’m pretty much the only one that knows).
And I can just, like, add it to myself. For the average user that wants to have a profile here, they have to request a prompter link. And then an editor link. And maybe an artist link, too. Their profile now has at least 3 different origin tags. Now multiply that by how many other places they post on.
And additionally, the scenario where someone uploads an image they think is one type, but is actually another. To fix it, someone needs to fix both the “artist” tag and the “ai something” tag.
Otherwise, the tags are wrong, as these redundant set of tags have to match. A discordance the site already suffers from.
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Site and Policy » Possible change to Creator tags. [Opinions needed] » Post 13

MareStare

Mare Zealot
Thankfully watchlists allow for complex queries and they can just do artist:blah AND NOT photo; yes the reverse path of someone adding all the different origin tags to their watchlist could also work, but, I strongly suspect your scenario is far less common than “I want to watch all this person’s stuff”, so less overall friction.
Basically, my thoughts as well. To me, it’s apparent that people more often want to subscribe to everything the person creates. I find the use case of the complex “author but not photo” much less common, especially given that this site is generally less diverse in types of content than Derpibooru. Other social media sites like X, BlueSky etc. don’t even have a feature of complex filter and people live fine subscribing to everything from the person. Also, if people aren’t interested in author’s photo stuff, it’s likely they aren’t interested in any photos at all and may just hide that tag sitewide.
So, given that there is still solution, I vote that it’s better to prioritise a more common case as the default. I.e. “Simple things should be simple, complex things should be possible”. Of course this isn’t built on any statistics, just on my sense.
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Site and Policy » Possible change to Creator tags. [Opinions needed] » Post 12

LightningBolt

Administrator
ADHD fueled
@Teaspoon
You…assume it’s more common for people to want to follow everything a person makes all at once? ._.;
Well then.
I am aware complex watching and filtering exists, I am also aware that most people find it too complicated, and to my perspective, keeping things as they are creates the least amount of issues imo.
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Site and Policy » Possible change to Creator tags. [Opinions needed] » Post 11

Teaspoon

poni
@LightningBolt
Thankfully watchlists allow for complex queries and they can just do artist:blah AND NOT photo; yes the reverse path of someone adding all the different origin tags to their watchlist could also work, but, I strongly suspect your scenario is far less common than “I want to watch all this person’s stuff”, so less overall friction.
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Site and Policy » Possible change to Creator tags. [Opinions needed] » Post 10

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